⚫︎Toward a Society Where People Can Escape
Yamagiwa: The problem is that we have created a society from which it is difficult to escape. That is why I keep arguing that we need a society where people have more opportunities to leave and start over. For example, do you know how many elementary and junior high school students in Japan are currently refusing to attend school?
Adachi: I have no idea, but I imagine the number must be significant.
Yamagiwa: It has surpassed 350,000. The reason is simple: schools have become educational environments with no escape routes. Even our residency system only allows people to register one official address. That too symbolizes a society built on permanent settlement. If people could establish multiple places where they belong, they would have somewhere to go when difficulties arise. Many unnecessary conflicts could be avoided. Instead, we have created a society where people are expected to endure unreasonable pressure.
Adachi: Yet technically people can move, can't they? Perhaps the issue is that they convince themselves they must not leave. They become trapped by linguistic and psychological constraints without even realizing it.
Yamagiwa: That's true, but we should not forget something important. Human culture has always been rooted in relatively small social groups. Cultural identity provides the space in which people feel secure. This idea is supported by a principle discovered by my colleague, the primatologist Robin Dunbar. Human brains reached their current size before language emerged. In other words, language did not make our brains larger.
Adachi: I didn't know that. I had assumed language drove brain development.
Yamagiwa: Studies of monkeys and apes that do not use language revealed that species living in larger groups tend to have larger brains. The more social relationships an animal must manage, the more advantageous it becomes to remember those relationships. This led to the hypothesis that larger brains evolved primarily to handle social complexity. Applying that theory to modern humans, Dunbar concluded that the maximum number of meaningful social relationships a person can maintain is roughly 150.
Adachi: One hundred fifty sounds both large and surprisingly small. What kind of relationships are included in that number?
Yamagiwa: People whose faces and personalities you know. People you can turn to when you encounter difficulties instead of struggling alone. Even with social media, that upper limit remains around 150. Beyond that, the network doesn't truly expand. More importantly, these relationships are not built through words alone. They are formed through shared experiences of joy, anger, sadness, and happiness. Trustworthy social capital emerges only through resonance between bodies and through spending time together.
Adachi: Hearing that makes me wonder how many such relationships I actually have. And when people become deeply tied to a particular community, leaving it can become difficult.
Yamagiwa: Today social media has weakened many local ties. Online networks are creating new forms of social capital, but they also create problems. People often overreact or become increasingly hostile. That's because these relationships are mediated through digital symbols rather than embodied interaction. As a result, excessive self-consciousness emerges. People speak of "neo-tribalism" today, but in reality online relationships are becoming increasingly narrow.
Adachi: So they may not even reach the old benchmark of 150 relationships.
Yamagiwa: Exactly. These relationships are not built on resonance or mutual experience but on belief. People associate only with those who share the same convictions. Yet the actual person behind the screen remains invisible. People accept this because it provides emotional reassurance. The problem is that such relationships are not inherently durable. Because they lack embodied connection, they can disappear very easily.
Adachi: People feel safe simply because someone shares their views. In a sense, that seems less scientific and perhaps more instinctive.
⚫︎Mechanization and the Advance of Self-Domestication
Yamagiwa: At the same time, humans have been becoming more machine-like. Since the Industrial Revolution, people have increasingly sought to function like machines. They organize their lives according to schedules, rules, and fixed working hours. That's essentially robotic behavior. Then, after centuries of this process, AI appeared. Machines are now attempting to become human while humans are becoming machines. AI is already surpassing human capabilities in many areas. As humans move closer to machine-like behavior, they become more susceptible to AI's influence. The result is that people stop thinking deeply and begin living through simple cycles of stimulus and response.
Adachi: That's exactly what concerns me. I believe metacognition—the ability to observe oneself objectively—is becoming critically important. We need tools that help people understand their own condition. That's one reason we developed the Mental Battery service and the Mentoring 2 smart ring.
Yamagiwa: Humanity has undergone a process of self-domestication. It began with settled life and accelerated dramatically after the Industrial Revolution. If you look at brain size, modern humans have brains that are roughly 10 to 30 percent smaller than those of humans who lived 30,000 years ago. This mirrors what happens in domesticated animals. The brain of a domestic dog is only about half the size of that of a wild wolf. Domestication reduces aggression and decreases physical differences between males and females. Similar changes have occurred in humans.
Adachi: Are you saying that human beings have literally become domesticated?
Yamagiwa: The evidence is visible. Since the emergence of Homo sapiens, our jaws have receded and our faces have become flatter and smaller. At the same time, variation within the species has increased dramatically. Hair color, skin color, and body types differ widely, much like the diversity seen among dog breeds. There is also the famous experiment conducted by the Russian zoologist Dmitry Belyaev. Beginning in the 1950s, he selectively bred silver foxes, choosing only the most docile individuals. Within roughly twenty generations, the foxes exhibited traits similar to domestic dogs. Even wild animals can become domesticated remarkably quickly.
Adachi: It almost sounds as though humans have been placed in the same kind of environment. Everything has become convenient. We can survive with relatively little effort.
Yamagiwa: Exactly. If you repeatedly select for obedience, wild foxes become domesticated animals. Perhaps humanity has been doing something similar to itself.
Adachi: And one of the major catalysts was the Industrial Revolution. Societies benefited from producing obedient workers.
Yamagiwa: Industrialization required nation-states. Nation-states relied upon educational systems. Beginning in Britain and spreading throughout Europe, these systems were designed to create citizens who would serve the state. Japan adopted a similar model after the Meiji Restoration. Education became a mechanism for producing compliant individuals, accelerating human self-domestication.
Adachi: Looking at history through that lens is fascinating.
Yamagiwa: The result is a generation of increasingly obedient young people. That's why I keep saying we must become wild again. We must wake up. Humanism rests on a simple principle: every individual is different. Those differences are precisely what make relationships meaningful. If everyone becomes the same kind of robot, there is no reason to engage with one another. It becomes easier to stay online and avoid the inconvenience of human interaction. That is why more people now claim that AI is their most trusted companion.
Adachi: The trend seems particularly strong among younger generations. Some people say they don't need friends or even family as long as they have AI.
Yamagiwa: Of course. Relationships with people who are different from us can be troublesome. But that very difficulty is what makes them interesting. The fact that so many young people are distancing themselves from that richness concerns me deeply.
⚫︎Reviving Metacognition Through Rewilding
Adachi: Through various research projects, especially those involving people recovering from mental and physical difficulties, I've noticed something interesting. Highly conscientious individuals often become trapped by rules and expectations. Yet once they realize they don't need to follow every rule perfectly, they begin to recover rapidly. Viewed through the lens of self-domestication, this is fascinating. But once someone has become domesticated, isn't it difficult to escape?
Yamagiwa: Not necessarily. There are many ways to become wild again. Metacognition simply means stepping back from your actions and observing them from a broader perspective. Everyday situations can reveal this.
Adachi: Such as?
Yamagiwa: Consider waiting at a crosswalk. Some people think, "There are no cars, so it's fine to cross even though the light is red." Others think, "Crossing on red is unacceptable." Most people frame this as a question of right and wrong. But right and wrong are social rules. They are not values inherently embedded within the human mind. At the same time, there is another dimension—personal preference. Preferences are connected directly to the body, which is why they are much harder to change.
Adachi: So seeing a red light and automatically thinking "stop" reflects a value judgment, whereas thinking "there are no cars, so I can cross" reflects a more instinctive level of judgment.
Yamagiwa: Exactly. After World War II, Japanese society completely reversed many of its previous assumptions. That was possible because those assumptions had been treated as matters of moral truth. What I am advocating instead is rewilding. We live in a rapidly changing world. Individuals must develop the ability to respond independently. The first step is to question what appears obvious.
Adachi: In other words, if common sense could be overturned so easily after the war, perhaps we should examine the assumptions we follow today without even noticing.
Yamagiwa: Take economic value. Today markets determine the value of almost everything. But what happens if you enter a space where market value has not yet been established? Suddenly, you can decide value for yourself. That is one pathway toward rewilding.
Adachi: By that logic, places like flea markets or community kitchens may provide such opportunities.
Yamagiwa: Exactly. The opposite example would be a giant shopping mall. There, prices are fixed. There is no negotiation. Often there is not even a salesperson present. Everything is automated. Objects once connected people to one another. Today they often do the opposite. When I was a child, baby clothes were passed from one family to another because they were needed only briefly. Now people assume that once they buy something, it belongs exclusively to them.
Adachi: That's the logic of mass production, mass consumption, and mass disposal. It has contributed greatly to the environmental problems we face today. Community kitchens, by contrast, are sustained through donations and shared contributions rather than profit.
Yamagiwa: And in those places, people gather, interact, and share joy. That is what objects were originally supposed to facilitate: human connection. Instead, we have created a society where objects divide people. Social media was supposed to compensate for this, but in reality it has intensified the fragmentation. That is one of the tragedies of contemporary society.
Adachi: Then perhaps the first step toward rewilding is exposing ourselves to diverse experiences. Modern life has become highly standardized. We need to question our assumptions and step into unfamiliar worlds. Doing so exposes us to new forms of stimulation. And perhaps one of the most important things is simply talking with people—especially strangers.
Yamagiwa: That is why I believe industries centered on bringing people together will become increasingly important. The Osaka-Kansai Expo attracted 29 million visitors not because people wanted to buy something but because they wanted to participate. Gathering people together to share time and space—the social industry—may become one of the defining industries of the future.
Adachi: People will pay for participation itself. And through conversations with strangers, they may discover new aspects of themselves.
Yamagiwa: Human beings cannot define themselves alone. The self is shaped by how others see us. If you remain in one place forever, the people around you fix your identity. But if you go somewhere new, different people will discover different aspects of who you are.
Adachi: The possibility of discovering a new self is exciting. It's like someone leaving a corporate job in the city and learning to farm in the countryside.
Yamagiwa: Exactly. Instead of remaining within artificial environments, become more wild. Open yourself to the world. Meet different people and discover different versions of yourself. Metacognition is essential for that process. But gatherings should never be controlled by AI. Encounters must be guided by individual judgment and improvisation. Genuine social interaction depends on spontaneity and discovery.
⚫︎Back to the Wild
Question common sense. Visit unfamiliar places. Speak with unfamiliar people.
For Yamagiwa, rewilding begins not with grand gestures but with everyday actions. Over millions of years, humans transformed weakness into strength and expanded their world through language. Yet in the process, they may also have domesticated themselves.
This dialogue ultimately returns to a simple but profound question: how can we know ourselves again?
Yamagiwa's answer is metacognition—the capacity to step outside ourselves, examine the assumptions we live by, and remain open to experiences that reveal who we might yet become.
Profile
Juichi Yamagiwa (Director-General, Research Institute for Humanity and Nature)
Born in Tokyo in 1952. Graduated from the Faculty of Science at Kyoto University and completed the coursework for a doctoral degree in the Graduate School of Science before withdrawing to pursue research. Holds a Doctor of Science degree. He has served as a visiting researcher at the Karisoke Research Center in Rwanda, a researcher at the Japan Monkey Centre, an assistant at Kyoto University's Primate Research Institute, and an associate professor, professor, and dean of the Graduate School of Science / Faculty of Science at Kyoto University, before serving as the 26th President of Kyoto University until 2020. A specialist in human evolutionary theory, he has conducted socioecological studies of wild Japanese macaques on Yakushima Island and of wild gorillas across Africa. He has also served as President of the Primate Society of Japan, President of the International Primatological Society, President of the Science Council of Japan, a member of the Council for Science, Technology and Innovation, and a Senior Advisor for Expo 2025 Osaka, Kansai, Japan.
He currently serves as Director-General of the Research Institute for Humanity and Nature. He is a recipient of the Minakata Kumagusu Prize and the Academia Prize. His many books include Everything Important in Life I Learned from Gorillas (Ie-no-Hikari Association, 2020), The Children Who Want to Throw Away Their Smartphones: Learning How to Live in an "Age of the Unknown" from the Wild (Poplar Shinsho, 2020), What a Gorilla Scholar Thought About in the Jungle of Kyoto University (Asahi Shinsho, 2021), Saruseijingo (Seidosha, 2022), The Empathy Revolution: The Evolution and Future of a Socializing Humankind (Kawade Shinsho, 2023), The Voice of the Forest, the Eyes of the Gorilla: Carrying the Essence of Humanity into the Future (Shogakukan Shinsho, 2024), To Humans Who Do Nothing but Quarrel: From the Land of Gorillas (Mainichi Shimbun Publishing, 2024), A Way of Thinking for Growing Old (Bungeishunju, 2025), and Thinking in the Forest of Gorillas (Mainichi Shimbun Publishing, 2025).
Jun Adachi (CEO of MENTAGRAPH Inc. / Director of D-LAB, Japan Tobacco Inc.)
At D-LAB, the corporate R&D organization of the JT Group, Adachi has led the planning and development of new businesses and founded MENTAGRAPH Inc. Previously, he worked at a UX consulting firm before joining Japan Tobacco Inc. in 2018.
